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Old November 9th, 2008, 10:26 AM
mogulbumm mogulbumm is offline
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Default Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

My neighbor has a WGR614. How do I know this? I can connect to his "secure" WEP-encrypted wireless access. The problem is that my wireless devices connect to his network sometimes instead of mine, though they are authenticating to MY access point.

Example, I have a non-Netgear Wireless-N router, configured with WEP and am NOT publishing the network name. I use the IP range 192.168.168.x.

Neighbor has the WGR614 using the default IP range of 192.168.1.x.

My machines sometimes authenticate on my access point, but get a 192.168.1.x DHCP address from my Neighbor's router - and then I end up using his Internet connection (which is slower than mine).

The only way around this is to put a DHCP reservation on my access point which seems to force the machine to stay local.

What I don't understand is that the neighbor is using a different brand router (netgear), WEP, a different network name, AND a different WEP key. How is it that I am able to authenticate locally but get on another secure wireless zone? The neighbor also did not change the default password so when I get on his DHCP range I can also access his WGR614 directly (using default username/password) and I've even done him a favor and updated his firmware for him (I told him today - he didn't seem to care much

I would be worried about this as a severe security risk if one can get on a Netgear range, bypassing the Netgear WEP, just by authenticating on another WEP from another router.

Any ideas on how I can avoid connecting to his wireless accidentally? He at least took time to secure the access point, but I am baffled.
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  #2  
Old November 10th, 2008, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

You are doing illegal sharing

Is it legal for me to share my cable modem or DSL connection with my neighbors?

In many cases the answer is no. It depends on the wording of your contract with your broadband provider. Many don't want you to share. As far back as 2002, Time Warner Cable was sending warnings to customers with open Wi-Fi access points, and a year later it sued an apartment complex on charges of illicit sharing. Also, AT&T Broadband has acknowledged monitoring customers for "inordinately high" usage.

"Our terms of service for Verizon Online DSL customers do prohibit them from sharing their connection," says Verizon spokeswoman Bobbi Henson. "The service is meant for use in one location, which would be their home."

"We haven't seen a lot of problems with this, to tell you the truth. Because of the way the DSL network is configured (with one line into each house), sharing doesn't cause us the network problems, frankly, that it can cause for cable. If we were to receive some kind of complaint, like maybe a neighbor calls and says, 'I know my neighbor is sharing my connection and it's making me mad because other neighbors are getting it for free,' we might warn that customer."

if you are outside of US, check with local ISP but most do follow strict usage or sharing with other residential
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Old November 11th, 2008, 06:52 PM
mogulbumm mogulbumm is offline
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

Did you even read the post or are you some kind of automated reply person?

My question is why I would authenticate onto my local Linksys box, using WEP, but somehow pick up an IP address from my Neighbor's Netgear wireless box and end up on their supposedly secured network.

Security policy from Netgear would dictate that this should not be possible, hence my question. I DO NOT WANT to use my neighbor's network. It is slower than mine. The problem is that I pick up HIS "secure" netgear product over my own. Maybe his signal is stronger where I am sitting, but he is using a different ID and WEP key so there should technically be no way I should be able to get on his range.
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Old November 11th, 2008, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

in that case you either have channel issue on your router 1-6-11

other emitting devices in your house where router is located is interfering with your router
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Old November 11th, 2008, 07:15 PM
mogulbumm mogulbumm is offline
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

Hi June,

Again, I don't think you are grasping this issue.

I have no problem connecting to my own router. It works great and has worked for some time. My neighbor recently installed a WGR614 and, since that time, I occasionally seem to get an IP address from HIS router.

The question I have is WHY???? His router is on a different wireless network ID and using a different WEP key. Without knowing either of these, why would it assign me an IP address and allow me on his network?

It appears that I authenticate first on my wireless network using MY SSID and MY WEP key, but then sometimes get an IP from HIS wireless device and can surf the network through his cable connection.

I can bypass this by assigning my systems DHCP reservations from my own linksys box, but am still baffled as to why I would be able to get on his network in the first place.

I really don't think you are grasping the concept since wireless channel and interference have NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. I would actually hope you would forward this to the developers there since I believe I found a bug that is a HUGE security loophole with Netgear and I'm tempted to report it through my channels in the VAR media.

Please don't answer unless you have thoroughly read my post since it appears you are only viewing it in a very cursory manner without comprehending the actual question.
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Old November 11th, 2008, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

why you keep using WEP are hackable anyway, test with yours on WPA2 and see how that works out

can't see both as same encryption key unless it is but different SSID

there is not report of what you are saying as much there is WGR post
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Old November 11th, 2008, 07:34 PM
mogulbumm mogulbumm is offline
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

Strange... can recreate at will with (2) different routers at my house. Just because no other reports in the forum doesn't mean that there is not an issue. I've used WPA2 but one of my wireless devices in my house (old device) only works on WEP so I needed to standardize.

As much as you would like to believe this is not a Netgear issue, I can get on a secure Netgear network but authenticating onto another network altogether. That doesn't scream security to you?

Sorry.. I've been in IT and computer forensics for over 18 years so it just seemed odd to me. Yes, I know that WEP is more easily hacked (which is also why I don't publish my SSID and use a 128-bit key) but it still doesn't explain the WHY aspect.

I would expect that you would question this issue more rather than chalk it up to something you haven't seen before... what do I know... I guess I'll try a third router, another brand altogether, and once I confirm the security leak I'll be sure to post it EVERYWHERE and make it the keynote for my next VSR Magazine podcast.
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Old November 11th, 2008, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

Quote:
Just because no other reports in the forum doesn't mean that there is not an issue.
I didn't clear state that " impossible" I said I have not heard as much there is WGR post. I don't think that state any shape said, "Impossible to have this issue"

Quote:
As much as you would like to believe this is not a Netgear issue,
Never said that either. Since I don't work for Netgear or get paid..

Quote:
I've used WPA2 but one of my wireless devices in my house (old device) only works on WEP so I needed to standardize.
Partial test would be use WPA2 and if issue disappears.


Quote:
(which is also why I don't publish my SSID and use a 128-bit key)
I'm sure you know way to hack that too..

Quote:
I'll be sure to post it EVERYWHERE and make it the keynote for my next VSR Magazine podcast.
Since I'm not Netgear Staff, you should DEAL with Netgear directly with this issue from here forward




Quote:
I would expect that you would question this issue more rather than chalk it up to something you haven't seen before...
why I would question if I mod are not working for Netgear. Rather sharing what I have seen in the past to your issue.


http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n100005.asp
or

open the case

https://my.netgear-support.com/myNETGEAR/ENG/login.asp
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Old November 12th, 2008, 12:50 AM
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Mars Mug Mars Mug is offline
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Default Re: Connecting (unwillingly) to neighbor's "secure" WGR614

Have you asked your neighbour to change his key to see if you at least cannot connect temporarily?

Do you and your neighbour connect to the same ISP service, is this cable or DSL?

Do you both have modems or as is sometimes the case reported on this forum both connect to some kind of shared LAN? If for example you are on the switch side of a shared public router and you and your neighbour connect routers to this, then one or both of you could run into problems with the router NAT failing. One common consequence of this failure is that you see both the DHCP service from the router, and also DHCP services from the public network and other routers connected to that network.

Please give us more details about your broadband connection, modem type/model etc.

You may or may not know that the hacking process for WEP reveals MAC addresses and SSIDs regardless of whether they are 'broadcast' or not. Someone who has locally hacked both your network and your neighbours’ network could easily bridge both to give themselves a higher bandwidth broadband connection, this could cause your issue.

This bit was a tad naughty, what if the update process had failed and you bricked his router, would you have told him then? Newest firmware isn’t always best and some people, like myself, are happy to run with an older firmware that we know does the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulbumm View Post
I've even done him a favor and updated his firmware for him (I told him today - he didn't seem to care much
__________________
I don't work for Netgear.

My name is Andy.

Last edited by Mars Mug; November 12th, 2008 at 01:03 AM.
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