5Ghz broadcasts but no 2.4

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by billshih1975

you can use InSSIDer to scan your environment and check if you can find the 4500 2.4GHz and 5GHz SSID.

Hi,
I THINK that I'm having a problem with my new WNDR4500. Although the blue 5G led & green 2.4G led are both on and the dashboard shows both being broadcast, inSSIDer shows only the 2.4G bands (regular & guest) and no 5G being broadcast. Windows shows the connection speed on my laptop at 72Mbps (preety anemic at 3' from the router). If I turn the 2.4G radio off, my laptop shows NO connections available and will not connect.

Here is a little bit more of the details that I posted in the inSSIDer forum but, so far, have received no reply:

[I]I think I may have a new but DEFECTIVE Netgear WNDR4500 router . My old DLink DL-655 N router always showed a Windows connection speed of 65Mbps at the laptop. As soon as I replaced it with the Netgear, the connection speed increased to 72Mbps, which I think is quite anemic for a connection three ft away from the dual band router and, thus, probably not using the channel bonding (or whatever it's called). From most indications, the Netgear is broadcsting on both bands - 2.4G green lt & 5G blue lt, router software shows (2) SSID - NETGEAR93 & NETGEAR-5G. However, inSSIDer shows only the 2G transmitter SSID (NETGEAR93) although both SSIDs are set to "broadcast". If I enable the 2G guest network, inSSIDer shows that also but if I enable the 5G guest network it doesn't show up in inSSIDer. If I disable the 2G transmitter within the router software and leave the 5G transmitter operative, the laptop will not connect and shows NO connection available. Also, inSSIDer sees no SSID from the NG4500 in this case. The laptop is a Samsung RF710 with a Broadcom N wifi card. I have WMM enabled & speeds set at 450 (using 217 makes no difference) with security set at WPA2-PSK [AES]. I have tried everything I can think of and the connection speed remains at 72Mbps.

Does anyone have any ideas or need further info to determine whether I, indeed, have a defective router? I just purchased it about 10 days ago and can still RMA it

Thanks in advance
FredF

[StratmanX]

Originally Posted by ffresh

Hi,
I THINK that I'm having a problem with my new WNDR4500. Although the blue 5G led & green 2.4G led are both on and the dashboard shows both being broadcast, inSSIDer shows only the 2.4G bands (regular & guest) and no 5G being broadcast. Windows shows the connection speed on my laptop at 72Mbps (preety anemic at 3' from the router). If I turn the 2.4G radio off, my laptop shows NO connections available and will not connect.

The laptop is a Samsung RF710 with a Broadcom N wifi card. I have WMM enabled & speeds set at 450 (using 217 makes no difference) with security set at WPA2-PSK [AES]. I have tried everything I can think of and the connection speed remains at 72Mbps.

Does your notebook's NIC adapter card provide for 5 GHz wireless? If it only has a 2.4 GHz radio then you will only see 2.4 GHz being transmitted.

If your NIC adapter card is only a 2 antenna/2 radio card then you will not be able to utilize the additional bandwidth of Mode = 450 Mpbs, and you should set Mode = 217 Mpbs as a maximum. You need a 3 antenna/3 radio NIC adapter card to utilize Mode = 450 Mbps.

Setting Mode = 450 Mbps in the 2.4 GHz band can slow you down if there are other wireless signals operating over those (bonded) channels by your neighbors (or if there is electrical device interference). Unless you live in a rural location, set your 2.4 GHz Mode = 217 or 54 Mbps.

Find out precisely what NIC adapter card you have in the notebook and post it here.

If your NIC has both 2.4 and 5 GHz radios then you should be able to detect the routers beacons for both bands as long as you are within reception of the transmissions, definitely at 3 feet distance from the router. If not, then either the NIC has no 5 GHz radio, the NIC 5 GHz radio is bad, the router's 5 GHz radio is bad, or there is some other malfunction to the notebook, the OS/networking set up or the router.

An easy way to check is to use a different client that has known working 5 GHz NIC adapter, like a friend's for family member's notebook.

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by StratmanX

Does your notebook's NIC adapter card provide for 5 GHz wireless? If it only has a 2.4 GHz radio then you will only see 2.4 GHz being transmitted.

If your NIC adapter card is only a 2 antenna/2 radio card then you will not be able to utilize the additional bandwidth of Mode = 450 Mpbs, and you should set Mode = 217 Mpbs as a maximum. You need a 3 antenna/3 radio NIC adapter card to utilize Mode = 450 Mbps.


Setting Mode = 450 Mbps in the 2.4 GHz band can slow you down if there are other wireless signals operating over those (bonded) channels by your neighbors (or if there is electrical device interference). Unless you live in a rural location, set your 2.4 GHz Mode = 217 or 54 Mbps.

Find out precisely what NIC adapter card you have in the notebook and post it here.

If your NIC has both 2.4 and 5 GHz radios then you should be able to detect the routers beacons for both bands as long as you are within reception of the transmissions, definitely at 3 feet distance from the router. If not, then either the NIC has no 5 GHz radio, the NIC 5 GHz radio is bad, the router's 5 GHz radio is bad, or there is some other malfunction to the notebook, the OS/networking set up or the router.

An easy way to check is to use a different client that has known working 5 GHz NIC adapter, like a friend's for family member's notebook.

Thanks for the reply!
I have no way of telling what the exact model wireless card is in my laptop (Samsung RF710) but I'm pretty sure it's only N. Any information I derive from Windows or SANDRA only shows a Broadcom 802.11N adapter. Having an N adapter should, I would think, give me a better connect speed than 72Mbps, however - but maybe not.

If I'm reading you correctly, inSSIDer will only show the bands that my wireless adapter is capable of Tx/Rv on?? I realize about interference from/to my network but inSSIDer shows WEAK network strength (houses are far apart) and NONE on the channels I'm using to experiment/solve this issue are being used. I had tried 217 speed with NO difference. I did connect a friend's CHEAP HP notebook to my wireless network last night (his adapter is listed as b/g/N) and it connected at 150Mbps

If you're SURE that inSSIDer will not show the 5G bands because my card is unable then, perhaps, I'll bite the bullet and purchase the NETGEAR WNDA4100-100NAS wireless usb adapter. BUT, as you can imagine, I'd prefer not to if this (inSSIDer) info is incorrect ... just sayin'

Thanks again
Fred

[Chuck_s]

Unless your wireless PC has a 5MHz transceiver inSSIDer won't tell you anything.

I get 300Mbs speeds routinely with my little Asus USB-N13 but it's only 2.4G. Was only $20 and boosted my laptop from 54Mbs to 300. The Asus USB-N53 has the 5MHz band as well and is only about $40.

-- Chuck

[StratmanX]

First, what the link rate is when no data is being transmitted is of less importance than the link rate shown during data transmission.

Second, to understand and have truly useful information, you need to test throughput between two clients on your LAN. Using free applications like iperf/jperf, LAN Speed Test, or something else is better than looking at static link rates that are pre-programmed to show by the router. You may have noted that the link rate is highest when you first connect to the network and then drops, sometimes precipitously thereafter. This initial value is the pre-programmed rate and the decreased number is due to interference and distance from the router to the client NIC. Really, what is best to know is how well data is transmitted for a given time over a given distance.

Third, Call your notebook's manufacturer or go on their forum and ask. Alternately, you could open the notebook and see what you have - you may need to download the user manual for instruction if it didn't come with your notebook. There should be identifying markings on the NIC. You will also see (or ask) how many antenna are attached and if there is a third antenna even if not attached to the NIC (my notebook had 3 antenna but only 2 attached to the NIC).

Fourth, both your 72 Mbps link rate and your friend's 150 Mbps link rate tell me you both have N-capable NICs with at least 2 antenna/2 radio NICs operating on a single, non-bonded channel. It could also be your friend's NIC, and/or antennas, and/or antenna position, and/or electrical interference within the notebook is better than in your notebook and hence his link rate is higher. You did test from the exact same location, right?

Fifth, it is highly doubtful that inSSIDer is misreporting that lack of a 5 GHz signal. Most likely your NIC does not have a 5 GHz radio or the router is malfunctioning.

Sixth, why would you buy a USB adapter when you can inexpensively purchase an Intel 5300 or 6300 NIC from eBay (and a third antenna if needed, and then have the ability to utilize the most from your router? It is easy to change NIC's!

Seven, You did not say you saw the router's 5 GHz signal on your friend's notebook. Does he have a 5 GHz capable NIC? This was a lost opportunity to clear up the question of the 5 GHz band function.

Eighth, unless you are rural or no one has wireless in your location, stop using Mode = 450 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz band as this can slow you and your neighbor's down. In the very least, make sure no one is using two adjacent non- overlapping channels (1, 6, 11) before you use a bonded (40 MHz) channel when you select Mode = 450. You may also be further slowed down if you only have a 2 antenna/2 radio NIC using that Mode no matter what your observations have been so far.

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by Chuck_s

Unless your wireless PC has a 5MHz transceiver inSSIDer won't tell you anything.

I get 300Mbs speeds routinely with my little Asus USB-N13 but it's only 2.4G. Was only $20 and boosted my laptop from 54Mbs to 300. The Asus USB-N53 has the 5MHz band as well and is only about $40.

-- Chuck

Hi Chuck, thanks for the reply. I received an identical reply from the inSSIDer forums a little while ago - that inSSIDer is provided the info from my (5G-less) adapter and what it "sees".

I was looking at the usb solutions and almost sprung for one tonight but, being a tinkerer at heart, now I am intrigued by StratmanX's reference to replacing the internal wireless adapter. At least it's worth exploring first

Thanks
FredF

[StratmanX]

Originally Posted by StratmanX

Fourth, both your 72 Mbps link rate and your friend's 150 Mbps link rate tell me you both have N-capable NICs with at least 2 antenna/2 radio NICs operating on a single, non-bonded channel. It could also be your friend's NIC, and/or antennas, and/or antenna position, and/or electrical interference within the notebook is better than in your notebook and hence his link rate is higher. You did test from the exact same location, right?

CORRECTION:
1 antenna/1 radio has a maximum theoretical link rate of 150 Mbps.

2 antenna/2 radio maximum theoretical link rate of 300 Mbps.

3 antenna/3 radio maximum theoretical link rate of 450 Mbps.

These maximum theoretical link rates require a bonded channel (40 MHz).

Actual link rates will typically be less, oftentimes much less.

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by StratmanX

First, what the link rate is when no data is being transmitted is of less importance than the link rate shown during data transmission.
Agreed but it seems a good reference place to start before testing

Second, to understand and have truly useful information, you need to test throughput between two clients on your LAN. Using free applications like iperf/jperf, LAN Speed Test, or something else is better than looking at static link rates that are pre-programmed to show by the router. You may have noted that the link rate is highest when you first connect to the network and then drops, sometimes precipitously thereafter. This initial value is the pre-programmed rate and the decreased number is due to interference and distance from the router to the client NIC. Really, what is best to know is how well data is transmitted for a given time over a given distance.
Once again, I totally agree

Third, Call your notebook's manufacturer or go on their forum and ask. Alternately, you could open the notebook and see what you have - you may need to download the user manual for instruction if it didn't come with your notebook. There should be identifying markings on the NIC. You will also see (or ask) how many antenna are attached and if there is a third antenna even if not attached to the NIC (my notebook had 3 antenna but only 2 attached to the NIC).
Samsung doesn't seem to be too responsive and sometimes even argumentative (written correspondence) - long story - so I'm not sure that venue would be fruitful. Maybe disassembling would be better but it would be nice to know what card would fit first so I could just install & reassemble if I go that route; unless this adapter could be improved to a more reasonable speed. I uninstalled/reinstalled in Windows, rolled back the driver, etc., to no avail

Fourth, both your 72 Mbps link rate and your friend's 150 Mbps link rate tell me you both have N-capable NICs with at least 2 antenna/2 radio NICs operating on a single, non-bonded channel. It could also be your friend's NIC, and/or antennas, and/or antenna position, and/or electrical interference within the notebook is better than in your notebook and hence his link rate is higher. You did test from the exact same location, right?
Yes, I did. His rate fell off some but the initial speed, which I've never seen on mine is discouraging. My Samsung NP-RF710-S02US was almost three times more costly than his HP

Fifth, it is highly doubtful that inSSIDer is misreporting that lack of a 5 GHz signal. Most likely your NIC does not have a 5 GHz radio or the router is malfunctioning.
Again, I agree - see my response to Chuck, above. I think it's the adapter in the laptop, another reason to replace; so I can get the best use from the new dual band router

Sixth, why would you buy a USB adapter when you can inexpensively purchase an Intel 5300 or 6300 NIC from eBay (and a third antenna if needed, and then have the ability to utilize the most from your router? It is easy to change NIC's!
How deeply are they buried within the innards (usually); I do like to tinker and the warranty just expired

Seven, You did not say you saw the router's 5 GHz signal on your friend's notebook. Does he have a 5 GHz capable NIC? This was a lost opportunity to clear up the question of the 5 GHz band function.
No, there was no 5G band showing on his laptop either under inSSIDer. His laptop was $399 so I'm pretty sure it's bgN, only but hey, it still connected at a faster initial rate than mine

Eighth, unless you are rural or no one has wireless in your location, stop using Mode = 450 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz band as this can slow you and your neighbor's down. In the very least, make sure no one is using two adjacent non- overlapping channels (1, 6, 11) before you use a bonded (40 MHz) channel when you select Mode = 450. You may also be further slowed down if you only have a 2 antenna/2 radio NIC using that Mode no matter what your observations have been so far.

I'm fooling with these settings for testing purposes. inSSIDer shows very weak signals from the neighbors (on other bands). The houses are not very close. Having said that, however, I'm powering down to 217 as there is no point, at this time, in 450

Thanks again for all the help! If you have any additional advice on the internal wireless lan adapter, I'm all ears. I'll try to google (SOME MORE) to see if I can find out the exact adapter but I think it will be difficult without disassembly

FredF

[ffresh]

Found out why I'm connecting at 72Mbps all of the time

Got a reply to my query to Samsung (boy was I surprised)

Dear Fred,

Thank you for contacting Samsung Electronics.

We understand that you want to know about the type of WLAN, its specifications and how many antennas are installed in the netbook.

Here follows the information you are looking for:

Type
DHXB-81, 802.11b/g/n 1x1 WiFi _ Bluetooth Combo card

MaxSpeed
72Mbps (Link Speed is only standard value, Actually value will decided by each environmant)

Interface
Half Mini card type

Chipset
Broadcom BCM4313 & BCM2070

Antenna
2 integrated (Main, AUX)

Now I have to sort it out and decide whether to replace or add a usb Wlan - I'm leaning toward the former if I can find one but the combo card complicates matters

FredF

[StratmanX]

If you want an internal solution to replace the NIC adapter card in your notebook then I would suggest the Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N 6230 which has uses 2 antenna and 2 radio for a maximum theoretical of 300 Mbps (bonded channels) on both the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands. It also has integrated Bluetooth.

Make sure whatever you get is compatible for your set up, particularly it uses 2 antenna and is a Half-height MiniPCI form factor card.

I don't know if there are 3 antenna/3 radio WiFi plus Bluetooth cards, so maybe someone else can recommend.