#41  
Old November 14th, 2012, 11:48 PM
Devor's Avatar
Devor Devor is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ffynnon Garw
Posts: 1,997
Devor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkbbtop View Post
...now I'm stuck with a router that doesn't work properly because the firmware upgrade is faulty and it doesn't allow me revert back to the firmware that worked perfectly fine.
Others have said basically the same thing. What I don't understand is, if the previous firmware worked perfectly, why take the risk of updating the firmware? For example, I have a WNDR3700v1 and I'm using the older v1.0.7.98NA firmware. At the present time the router has an uptime of around 556 days and works perfectly for my needs. Updating the firmware in my router isn't going to improve anything. The router's firmware should only be updated when there is a strong chance that it might address an issue or at the risk of a, can't live without, new feature. Otherwise, updating should be avoided like the plague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkbbtop View Post
And why would a firmware upgrade require so much additional work? If it needs this much attention from the user, it shouldn't be an automatic upgrade. There should be a warning: "Before you click on the upgrade, do X, Y & Z first, then do A, B & C afterwards."
Because sometimes when it comes to software, hardware manufacturers are their own worse enemy. The reverse is also true. So, it's not that far of a stretch to understand why Netgear wouldn't include such warnings. Yet, Netgear is far from being alone in these matters. For example, many people update the motherboard BIOS in an unsafe manor. Why? Because they choose to use the hardware manufacturer's included BIOS update software with the OS. It's provided by the hardware manufacturer, right? Should be safe. Well, it's not.

Likewise, there is a proper way to update the router's firmware and the way the router does it on it's own, isn't the proper way. That's why I wrote the "How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware" guide (see sticky at the top of this forum or the link in my signature), which includes one proper way to update the router's firmware. Sure the guide requires a little more effort on the users part, but in the end it's safer.

And, as sabretooth mentioned earlier and to make sure his point wasn't missed, the configuration backup inside the router is for the current firmware only and shouldn't be used to revert settings on a different firmware version.

Having said that, it's frustrating to read that Netgear again released new firmware without properly beta testing on a wider sample. I'm not trying to throw salt, and should it appear that way I apologize in advance. I wish all of you luck with your router issues.
__________________
WNDR3700v1 (v1.0.7.98NA)
Router uptime (d:h:m:s): 1050:08:34:23

--
How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware:
http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63234
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old November 15th, 2012, 07:11 AM
thatguychuck thatguychuck is offline
Junior Member
NETGEAR Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
thatguychuck is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devor View Post
Others have said basically the same thing. What I don't understand is, if the previous firmware worked perfectly, why take the risk of updating the firmware? For example, I have a WNDR3700v1 and I'm using the older v1.0.7.98NA firmware. At the present time the router has an uptime of around 556 days and works perfectly for my needs. Updating the firmware in my router isn't going to improve anything. The router's firmware should only be updated when there is a strong chance that it might address an issue or at the risk of a, can't live without, new feature. Otherwise, updating should be avoided like the plague.
If that works for you, great. Hopefully they haven't patched any security issues since your firmware was released. The only real issue here is that they removed the ability to downgrade, which is a pretty bad lack of foresight.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old November 15th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Devor's Avatar
Devor Devor is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ffynnon Garw
Posts: 1,997
Devor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

In my opinion, blindly updating the router or any other device for that matter, for the sake of updating, is never a good strategy. This thread is a good example of what can go wrong and what's then required to overcome accepting that risk. Trust must be earned. Do you believe Netgear has earned your trust?
__________________
WNDR3700v1 (v1.0.7.98NA)
Router uptime (d:h:m:s): 1050:08:34:23

--
How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware:
http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63234
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old November 15th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Tristar1986 Tristar1986 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Tristar1986 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

I'm sorry but when you log into your router and are told there is a new firmware upgrade, which happens once in a blue moon, I expect as a customer for it work in most cases. When I update my windows I dont expect it to blue screen with every update do I! So I think your statement is just wrong. I expect all updates to firmware to be fully tested amongst all your devices!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old November 15th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Joe_ Joe_ is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,278
Joe_ is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

I fully agree with everything Devor has said here.

Sure, Netgear should thoroughly test any firmware before releasing it, and I'm not defending that one bit. But as one person said "If it ain't 'broke why fix it?"

If you scour these forums there are too many stories of firmware upgrades going awry.

Personally, I've turned off the automatic check for updates and haven't updated the firmware in my router in almost 2 years. I don't miss it and, I never regretted doing that .

The choice is always yours to make.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old November 15th, 2012, 09:42 PM
Devor's Avatar
Devor Devor is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ffynnon Garw
Posts: 1,997
Devor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristar1986 View Post
I expect all updates to firmware to be fully tested amongst all your devices!
That's naive talk or you're pulling my leg. There isn't even 100 percent compatibility between all routers and modems. Further, it's not practical for Netgear to test every possible device combination before release. If you are basing this on the amount of time between releases, to me it indicates that Netgear believes the router is mostly complete. That, resources can be better used on more important and/or current models, and not because they spent all that time having the RC tested.

As to the release itself, a better strategy would be for you to take 10 minutes to research the new firmware before updating. For example, if you had first read this thread about the issues experienced by others, would you have gone ahead anyway with the firmware update? Unless you enjoy misery, no, you wouldn't have and you'd be glad you spent those 10 minutes doing the research first.

I believe it's Netgear's responsibility to release responsibly tested and not Gamma tested firmware. If the release shows signs of having major issues, it is also their responsibility to pull it from the server to stop spreading a faulty release until such time they can bring in Diagnostics.

Yet, at the same time that doesn't negate the end user's responsibility for taking an uneducated gamble. Whether due to laziness, blind optimism or some other reason -- updating firmware includes risks and sometimes those risks have very negative consequences. The user needs to take responsibility for their actions and mitigate those risks, since things don't always go according to Hoyle.
__________________
WNDR3700v1 (v1.0.7.98NA)
Router uptime (d:h:m:s): 1050:08:34:23

--
How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware:
http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63234
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old November 15th, 2012, 10:57 PM
Devor's Avatar
Devor Devor is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ffynnon Garw
Posts: 1,997
Devor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguychuck View Post
Hopefully they haven't patched any security issues since your firmware was released.
According to the release notes for the v1.0.16.98NA firmware:
  • Support "AP mode" and "Auto IP" in AP mode.
  • Support "Schedule-based WiFi on/off".
  • Support "IGMP Proxying".
  • IE 9 support.
  • Support "Port Forwarding Enhancement".
  • Support "Automatic Internet Connection reset" in German language.
  • Support DFS channel in Australia, Canada, and Europe.
  • Fixed "Attached Devices not showing devices connected".
  • Fixed "can't disable automatic search for new FW in German GUI".
  • Fixed "Linux files changes to permit bits 777".
If there was something important I might, might, have considered it, but they mostly added new features. The only thing that was mildly amusing was the fix for the "Attached Devices not showing devices connected", which already works in the version I'm using.

Of course there could be undocumented fixes, but honestly, I have had zero issues. So, I'm not worried about it at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguychuck View Post
The only real issue here is that they removed the ability to downgrade, which is a pretty bad lack of foresight.
From what I understand, they removed the ability to easily downgrade the firmware. It's still possible.
__________________
WNDR3700v1 (v1.0.7.98NA)
Router uptime (d:h:m:s): 1050:08:34:23

--
How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware:
http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63234
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old November 16th, 2012, 12:10 AM
jlewter jlewter is offline
Senior Member
NETGEAR Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,299
jlewter is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

As a tech user (Like a lot of us who do use these forums regularly) we would know better than to take every upgrade as it comes. The idea that ever patch should work however is not something I would dismiss as dreaming or some consumer being naive. There are more than enough of us who have these units, have asked for betas in the past, and there are no doubt existing beta testers of the hardware who they could attempt contacting first.

Perhaps there was internal testing and it passed all of the QA checks, the end users who upgrade because a new version is there will suffer because the unit is faulty, and that is a shame - but it is not the users fault.

WiFi standards change, or even WiFi drivers in the unit itself can be changed but not appear in the release notes, Has the WPA key bug been fixed yet (I dont think so!).

Remember too that our view of "firmware" is not really the same as what it was 15 years ago, at one time "firmware" was something you only updated when it was a must, but now so much of the OS itself can be in firmware that you end up with some type of hybrid mix. To that I would say that in my view the biggest no-no when updating things like "routers" is when your updating the bootloader (that part that I would consider the firmware of 15 year ago).

Lets not push this off on users doing what they didnt need to do, the focus here should sit squarely on NG.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old November 16th, 2012, 12:17 AM
Scottyboy99 Scottyboy99 is offline
Junior Member
NETGEAR User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 95
Scottyboy99 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

I can see both sides of the argument. However, until some poor sod actually upgrades to the firmware no-one will know the consequences. Someone has to be the guinea pig and then even if one posts problems most assume it will be an isolated issue. It's only when a number of us, such us in this thread, start communicating it becomes clear that Netgear has dropped the ball. The inability to do an easy downgrade again made things pretty horrific. Fortunately we have all helped eachother and learned how to force the downgrade now with clear, easy to follow steps. I had never heard of TFTP2 before, no inclination to really learn but have had to and been guided by other helpful posters.

What I do find inexcusable is Netgear's lack of action to either release a prompt fix. Even worse is they still have the firmware available for download. It should be pulled. They have been contacted by numerous people (I have been very forceful with their support guys over email and phone) and every time they act as if this is the first they heard of it. They don't seem to care that their firmware has crippled things for many people. Their testing process must of been very flawed as checking devices can actually communicate over an SSID band is a fundamental router function. Even hard wired devices exhibited some small problems for me which I won't go into now.

Most people won't understand or have the time/know-how to attempt the firmware downgrade via TFTP2. It is daunting and for the average user they will have caused many problems. There will be many poor sods out there suddenly wondering why their devices (printers, iphones, ipads etc) are no longer communicating probably sitting there blindly trying to uninstall things like iTunes etc in a futile exercise to restore functionality. Netgear have made a massive hash of things.

Yes I agree, if all was working ok then I shouldn't of done the firmware upgrade. I have been burned! Luckily all ok now. However, when devices do not work or there is a network related issue the first thing anyone ever gets told to do is ensure firmware is upto date. You can get stuck between a rock and hard place.

Cheers
Wayne
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old November 16th, 2012, 08:01 AM
thatguychuck thatguychuck is offline
Junior Member
NETGEAR Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
thatguychuck is on a distinguished road
Default Re: wndr3700v2 1.0.0.32????

I joined this forum specifically to say thank you to those that helped with my issue. I'm appalled that a thread looking for solutions turned into a "it's your fault for updating in the first place." I won't be back.

Good day to all.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:55 AM.